An Interview with Bob Meyer - Part 3 of 3

From 8 December 2025

PART 3 OF 3

Picking up where we left off, interviewee Bob Meyer (BM) is about to describe his memory of the combat system used in Blackmoor to interviewer Rod Hampton (RH).

[BM] Originally, with [the] Fighting-Man, say we have a party of three. Let’s make it simple. We have three Fighting-Men. They’re in the first level of the dungeon. They run into a party of orcs. Say there’s ten orcs. Well, that made it real simple because three Fighting-Men could fit side by side in a normal dungeon corridor — [which is] where we are [for this example], so only three orcs in front of us. Now, when we started out on the expedition, David would require us to say what we had because as we adventured, we would get more weapons. Either we would find treasure so we could buy weapons or quite often what we’d do is we would just take whatever we found ([for example,] off of some orcs [that] were armed with weapons). We would take those, or we’d find a sword — which in the beginning that was a big treasure for us — in a chest. But we were operating out of Blackmoor village, and that had a blacksmith and a weapons maker, so we could go there and buy what weapons we wanted. So we had lots of weapons, but we weren’t allowed to take all of them with us. So we would take our favorite weapons with [us]; [the] ones that we thought would work best for us. And of course everyone carried a sword and a dagger. And then people would acquire shields or better armor and some people would like to use a mace or, you know, spears were real common, bows and arrows, that kind of thing. And when we’d run into a party. Quite often by then we’d go with sword in hand knowing that, well, we’re there looking for danger, we will find danger kind of thing.

[RH] Right

[BM] And then we would just go and David would ask us, “Well, what do you want to do?” And, you know, we’d say, “Well, I’m going to chop at the orc in front of me with my sword.” And then David would roll some dice, [and] we would roll some dice. I’m not even sure if David would roll dice at that point when we first started. I know we rolled dice and then David would tell us the results: “You hurt the orc” or “you killed the orc” or whatever it was, and then we’ll go to the next combat round. And then either we would keep chopping on the wounded orc or we would chop on the next orc that would come in. David was rolling dice, of course, because the orcs weren’t just standing there waiting to be killed, they were attacking us also.

[RH] Right. So it sounds like it was a simultaneous. I’ve heard that when you run Blackmoor you run it very free-form, very much simultaneous combat.

[BM] More or less. It’s very fluid because in actual combat, you know, you watch movies and you see, well, these guys are shooting at each other. Yeah, that’s simultaneous, but things are happening, you know, you might go around and ambush a guy from behind while they’re still shooting at someone else sort of thing. And, David did the same thing and so did I to begin with: “Okay, so, the orcs are coming down the staircase, what do you guys want to do?” And some people are conjuring spells, others are drawing their swords, someone may charge up the staircase, someone else may be taking out a flask of oil and saying, “I’m going to throw this at the staircase and then I’m going to throw a torch on it.” So these things are all happening at the same time and these actions are not all succinct in that some actions take longer than other actions.

[RH] Right.

[BM] If you’re chopping at someone with a sword, that’s quick, that’s concise, very little time. Whereas someone else is saying, “I’m taking out a flask of oil. I’m throwing it. I’m going to throw a torch.” Well, that takes a period of time longer than what the other person is doing.

[RH] Right.

[BM] Which is one reason I’ve given up running these games, because you have to keep track of all of this.

[RH] Right. It does sound like he asked you to declare your actions before resolving the round, so to speak.

[BM] Oh, yes.

[RH] Okay.

[BM] Oh, yes.

[RH] Yeah, so no takebacks?

[BM] We would declare our actions since we do whatever within that combat round and then would be in the next round and David’s keeping track of what [is happening]. Because in the beginning most things generally happened within each combat round. There’s not a whole lot, you know, [that falls outside a single round] unless someone is saying, “Well, I’m preparing a spell or something.” Then David would tell ‘em, “Okay, that’ll be in the next combat round.” But otherwise it all happened within the combat rounds.

[RH] Did any spells take place in the same combat round or did they all get . . .

[BM] Oh, yes.

[RH] Okay.

[BM] Oh, yes. Absolutely.

[RH] So . . .

[BM] That’s mostly when they happen. And it all depends, you know, it was also different, you know? Peter Gaylord may have been the first Wizard, but Peter is like me, a very aggressive player. He is in every game he plays. I’m not even sure why he became a Wizard to begin with. Something about it fascinated him, I guess, because he was famous for it. Yeah, he would use spells, but he always looked for an opening to get into the combat. And since the Wizard [is] only allowed, like, a dagger, he would draw his dagger and he would charge into the melee.

[RH] [laughs]

[BM] Yeah, he did that all the time. It got to the point where we watched him closely. We almost assigned a person to him . . .

[RH] [laughs]

[BM] because the Wizard doesn’t have armor or anything, and we really could use the spells a whole lot more than his stabbing someone with a dagger, because that doesn’t do a whole lot of damage, you know? And so there we have a defenseless Wizard in front of an orc who he stabbed, who, of course, would be very angry and would chop at him with whatever he had in his hand. So we had to try to drag him [Gaylord] out of the melee and tell him, “You’re a Wizard, Peter. Throw a spell.” Well, you know, we’re only allowed so many spells within a day, so if he ran out of spells, I guess he would feel justified . . .

[RH] [laughs]

[BM] . . . into joining the combat because he’s not gonna just stand there as an observer. But he was valuable to us, you know, as a person, let alone as a character.

[RH] Did you ever have to roll to, to interpose your shield or did Arneson ever have like an armor class saving throw at some point during the development of the combat system?

[BM] I think he actually started with the [that?], you know, because if you look at the tables the tables you have a Wizard [with] no armor, no nothing. You have a level one Fighting-Man who might have, say, a dagger because he’s just a peasant going out adventuring. He has no armor or anything. And then you have a leather armor, which was most common when we first started out because people tended to wear leather also, besides cloth. And then you got better, and one thing we learned early was to buy a shield. And the shield was not interposed per se. Even though David might use that as an excuse for what happened when someone chopped on you, the shield just added to your armor class. So, when you chopped [or] when an orc chopped on you, David would look at what you have for defense, what your armor is. Do you have a shield? Do you have a helmet? He would add all that up. The orc would roll the dice, and then that would say whether or not the orc hit you.

[RH] Did he distinguish between different types of helmet or different types of shield?

[BM] Not really, at least to begin with, no, I don’t remember him differentiating because people really didn’t differentiate. There’s no need to.

[RH] Yeah, it’s too-

[BM] I mean, it’s-

[RH] . . . too complex.

[BM] A shield was made out of metal. That’s it. You know, we never used any wooden shields or wicker shields or anything like that. Because shields were expensive, and that was explained by the fact that they’re metal, you know, because everyone had this idea of, from the movies and books, that a knight is in plate armor with a metal shield. So that is what we always aspired to.

[RH] Got it. Got it. There was something else I wanted to ask you, but I’m running out of time. Um . . .

[BM] Speaking of which, because I’m so forgetful, I’d like to ask you a question.

[RH] Sure.

[BM] Now, I assume that you want to have more conversations?

[RH] I am sure I’m gonna have follow-up questions. If you’re open to it, I would definitely take advantage of that opportunity.

[BM] Okay.

<Coordination of schedules for potential follow-up call(s)>

[RH] Perfect. And then, if — after I transcribe this stuff — . . . I might run some of it by you just for clarification.

[BM] Yeah, definitely. I mean, I’m open to that, obviously. You’re not the first person to call me and talk to me about all of this stuff.

[RH] [laughs] I’m sure. Yeah.

[BM] Lots of people out there. It always kind of surprises me that they’re talking to me because I’m not really famous, you know? You’ve got David Wesley, David Megarry, Greg Svenson, Mike Carr, all of those people, and I’m wondering, aren’t you people talking to them?

[RH] I would love to speak with everybody but again, it, it comes down to, who can I reach? And you’re the first one that I’ve been introduced to, so, for me, this is where the journey starts. I’ve done all this research based on just textual documents and reading through forums and, you know, trying to cobble together timelines [to be able to ask] good questions.

[BM] Actually, this is good because I’m good for a general idea on just about anything because I was there for everything, really. I mean, starting about 1970, 1971. But when it comes to specific questions on things, as I mentioned earlier, you know, you need to talk to Wesley about things like Braunstein and Napoleonics. To Megarry, look for Dungeon! and some of the early Blackmoor. Greg Svenson was there for all of Blackmoor, so he would know more about that than I would. But, I’m sort of a generalist, which actually came up when Griff [Morgan] interviewed me for the movie. Because I was surprised. You know, I asked him, “Why are you talking to me? Because I didn’t create any of this.” He said, “Well, because I was there for everything and I’m backing up what the other people say.” You know, my general memories basically help to give a timeframe for what everyone else is saying. So if you want to talk to other people, you know, you have a general idea now, and you can talk to them about specific things they [remember better] than I do.

[RH] No, this is, this is perfect, and I think you’re selling yourself short. I mean, you [fought] the troll under the bridge. Oh, the troll under the bridge! Was there an actual card game? It was advertised as a card game with a troll under the bridge. Did you play poker or anything?

[BM] All I remember about that particular game was the actual combat itself. I don’t. I have a vague memory, and actually it would make sense that, you know, when the game started, I don’t even remember who else was there. I suspect that everyone else who participated in that game is gone now. They’ve all passed away, which is why no one else will talk about it because they know nothing about it. But I remember showing up and David telling me I’m a Hero, which is a good start because, like I said, I never really role-played as an adult. And he said, “Okay, here’s the setup.” And he explained it to me. And the game progressed in whatever fashion. I have no idea what I was doing during that time. And then the troll came out to harass some people or something, and that’s when I was called from offstage to come in and rescue [them by] taking care of the troll. Which, of course, I did not do. It, it ended disastrously for me.

[RH] [laughs]

[BM] And that’s all I remember of that game. I don’t remember who was there. I don’t remember what else happened, none of it.

[RH] That’s, that’s still great. Well, I’ll reach out, uh, via email or I’ll text you for some . . . follow-on conversation after I digest everything we talked about today.

[BM] Sure.

[RH] I appreciate your time today, Bob. Means a lot to me.

[BM] Hey. [laughs] I am a storyteller — which is amazing because I never was this as a kid. I was the wallflower at parties, which I rarely attended. I never talked to people. And now you can’t get me to stop.

[RH] [laughs]

[BM] So, you know, as a retired person, I’m not saying my life is boring by any means. We seem to be busier retired than we were when we were working, but yeah, [if] you get me started, you know, [laughs] I should have a warning label on me: “Warning: Old man who talks too much” (which is what my wife calls me).

[RH] [laughs] You’re fine. I, I appreciate you. I gotta push on with my day. Thank you so much, Bob.

[BM] Yeah, you’re very welcome. And I hope this is really useful for you.

[RH] It is. It’s super useful. I’ll talk to you later.

[BM] Okay, bye.

An Interview with Bob Meyer: Part 1 · Part 2 · Part 3

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Originally published on Substack on July 25, 2026.